I think this point-counter point holds true until the women start getting later in age, and the biological clock begins to tick. Keep in mind there are more women than men in this country and on the planet. So the "need" for women more than men, isn't necessarily so.

I almost, almost agreed with the article.... Then the responder mentioned that we're only spending 20 bucks on the initial date. Yeah right...20 dollars my ass! It's $60 to $70 minimum for dates now a days. And let's not forget the tip. And let's not forget how inconsiderate women are when they decide that they'll be choosing where dinner will be served. It's always a pricey place. What the fuck ever happened to a slice of pizza and a movie?! And don't say I'm cheap. I'm speaking for all men. Why the fuck do men have to plop down a ton of moolah for an overpriced meal - and why do women expect us to do so? My next date is coming with me through the drive-thru at McDonald's.

I was raised to pay. but I have to tell you I am sick of women who act like it is my duty, like I am paying you back for the Mac makeup kit you just purchased so you could "look good for me", or making up for your perceived 30 cent earning differential (though somehow we work in the same industry and make the same money), or because you suffer through the monthlies and this is my atonement and just take it as a matter of your due. I am sick of women who show up for dates, never offer to pay for a thing from early drinks through dinner and after dinner entertainment, taxis, etc and when the night is over have me walk them to an ATM because they didn't even bother to bring cash, THAT sure of their entitlement to my money they were.

Funny how women think equality for women means every single thing BUT footing (let alone sharing) the bill. Just dare mention one single thing a woman classically does with/for a guy and you get venom in your eye. Yes sweetheart, equality means we shouldn't be footing the bill.

"if you add up all the money women spend to look good, smell good and feel good FOR YOU on the date ... you'll see that it all evens out." I disagree - for the most part, girls look good for themselves - and then MAYBE after they like the guy they'll try to make an extra effort for the date (which is fine, just don't argue they're spending the money for the date). by that point they should already be at least offering to pay.

that said, don't ask a girl out and expect her to pay - you asked her so count on paying

I don't know if you realize the price of a decent wordrobe for a guy these days but it ain't cheap. Alot of girls won't even look at a guy wearing anything but deisgner and your saying it adds up? Guys may not spend as much money or time as women to look good but it's not such a significant difference that the bill I'm footing is balancing the equation. It's not like my clothes are free. I'm all about about paying for my dates just because I'm a gentlemen and I want to set a good impression for my girls but I cannot stand a girl who expects me to drop my credit card for her every want. I especially hate it when I have the courtesy to do something like hold a door for a woman and she doesn't even say thanks, like she expected no less from me. As for finding "the one" thats all up to personal taste. Maybe you do have higher standards but that's your choice so don't expect just because you want something better that you are going to get it. Sometimes standards are just too high. Not every guy is a lean mean doctor who loves kids and romantic horse back rides. We're not perfect ladies, it's true. But you're not all perfect either so don't act like we are the only ones that need to compromise.

Whatever happened to a date just being a cup of coffee and getting to know the person. cheap yeah but if the woman expects an expensive date on the first i have no interest.

That sounds great. It should be a cup of coffee. I don't know how dates got to be a full on production of dinner and drinks or a movie. Too much pomp and circumstance. . .it puts more pressure on the situation. Coffee is great.

Here is the real deal why women want guys to pay: it's so they WON'T put out and feel like a cheap whore afterwards. Like they are gonna sell that pussy for dinner date. Right.

You guys going on "dates" are chumps.

Jake,

No, take her inside and make her BUY YOU a Happy Meal or some bullshit. Play with the toys and shit. Make fun of her, make her feel good by laughing at herself. Then take her to book store to pick up some book you want anyway, tease her about trashy romance novels or magazines or whatever. Then to coffee shop for dessert. Then have her take YOU home, give her any stupid pretext whatsoever such that she doesn't feel like a slut for coming inside, and get busy. Have music/movie already on in stereo/dvd whatever. It's like falling down a hole man.

Since you don't spend any money on her, she won't feel like a whore when she's walking funny the next day.

Tear 'em up cowboy.

Guy, don't fight it. Be the fuck buddy.

You are right about women and equality. WHen women say they want equality it means they want all the good things men have (higher paying jobs, more respect, more power, etc), but they dont want any of the bad things that go with it, like having to pay.

Hey, here's an idea. Split the bill with the girl. Guys, if you dont do this at least once in the first 3 dates, you will have set precedent that you will always pay for everything. I suggest that on at least one of those 3, you split the bill 50-50. If she expects you to pay, then say you dont have any more and you left your credit card at home. If she claims the same thing, then ask for separate checks, pay yours and leave her to figure out how she's getting out of there; she's not worth it. I always split bills with my girlfriend and it always went fine (except that she tips too much - STANDARD TIPPING IS 15% in this country; its amazing how many people dont know that).

Letting a man buy me dinner makes me feel like a whore, rather than a hot little thing. Consequently, I don't go out with a man if I can't pay my own way, and buy him dinner once in a while. But what I can't understand is the men who throw a fit if I try to pay, like it's a question of their masculinity. 'You can't pick up the check! Then my opening the door for you, taking your coat, and pulling out your chair for you will all have been in vain, and my chivalry will be wasted!'. Presumably, that isn't the thought process, but I just can't figure it out. Why does it insult some men if I pay, but piss off other men if I /don't'/ pay?

it's all very simple. if you really didnt want us to pay for you, you'd give us your half AFTER we paid.

i go out all the time with good friends of the opposite sex, and i always offer to pay because i am a nice guy. and i will continue to offer to pay for any woman with whom i am sharing company with until i die.

the ones who allow me to pay far outnumber the ones who hand me their money after i've paid.

All that money they spend trying to look good? WTF? Why does a woman need hours and $$$ to prepare for a date?

I asked her out, I pay. If she wants to share, I don't mind. No biggie. I'll just say, "Next time, I pick the place and you buy me dinner." No pressure or hassle in that.

Comb your hair, put on something comfortable, and relax. Be yourself. I'm not dating Donna Karan. If a woman can't look beautiful or feel beautiful without first spending an hour in the bathroom, then she's high-maintainance and too much work. Gimme a tomboy who looks good in a sundress, any day.

A date is not an interview - it is a conversation between likeminded individuals.

The girl should offer to buy the drinks (this means she is down to earth and happy to be there) - however as a man - you must insist that you pay for them.

At the begining of dinner the man should never state "i am buying dinner" - but discretley pay without kicking up a fuss.

After dinner - she buys 2 drinks. I make statements like - "I have genuinely had a good time this evening!!" I make a move - and hey presto!

Thats how i do it!

Why does everyone feel the need to take anyone male or female out to expensive places for a date? I mean c'mon, what are we compensating for here? If you take someone somewhere really expensive the first time then have to admit later on that you're not loaded don't you just look like a sadact anyway? What happened to walking in the park or sharing a conversation? Blow the cinema, that's two hours of ignoring each other unless you are trying the ol' worn out yawn-and-arm trick. Keep the expensive dinner, make a picnic and prove you are a capable man.

This is a tricky one for us guys, because many of us have been brainwashed (since childhood) into believing it's the right thing to do - to pay for everything on the date. Just the same way that women have been brainwashing into thinking that it's NOT alright to have sex on the first date! :)

Seriously though, I have paid for dates, and to some extent I don't mind doing it, but what really SHITS ME OFF BIGTIME is when a woman doesnt even thank me for paying for her.

That has happened to me on more than 1 occasion, and it just turns me right off her immediately. I can ignore some character flaws (we all have them), but that is just about the ultimate in BAD-POOR-TASTE date manners.

Having said all that, I think the sensible thing to do is to just meet for coffee on the 1st date. I don't mind paying for that, and if it doesnt work out, no biggie. A coffee is a coffee. I have even paid for friends to have coffee, so its kool & easy to do.

If you drop $50-$100 on a 1st date, you are either trying too hard or you are desperate. Neither quality usually appeals to a woman...

K.I.S.S. - keep it simple stupid!

i think this is relativly simple. Guys wan't to pay, but they don't want it taken for granted. No rocket science here.

Be careful how you present yourself up front - especially with online situations. If you're offering a fine dining french meal with expensive wine (i.e. "Pomerol") and then change the date to a mexican restaurant, you are setting up expectations that you can not fulfill (i.e. "bait and switch"). Girls HATE this! If your budget is really more like mexican, say so up front! A girl will wonder what else you have told her that is untrue if you keep dangling bells-and-whistles and continuously downgrade the scenarios.

Regarding paying for meals on dates? During a courtship period it is important to a girl that the guy proves he can and is willing to take care of her. Forget the makeup and beauty expenses - - decent women will reciprocate with dinners and nice wine at their place, small but thoughtful gifts, and unlimited backrubs....among other things.

The takeaway here is to be real from the beginning. Honesty up front sets up an honest relationship.

Isnt dating essentially legalized prositution. Guys are paying either way... with prostitutes they know what they will be getting

This is a really interesting discussion, and everyone here has a valid point in terms of the difficult social atmosphere that the sexes are interacting within, but to me it seems as if the point of dating is being missed.

Although we have all shaken off many of the traditional aspects of our gender roles there are still underlying ideas of masculinity and femininity that work within dating that ignite the fire of sexual tension between us. Although it's not progressive thinking to allocate the 'provider' role to the male and the 'nurturing' role to the female, it's still a very real part of our society. Within a date we often play out these traditional roles in subtle ways in order to establish a sexually charged relationship instead of a friendship. This allows us to show our interest the in the other individual as a sexual being without having to put ourselves out there with verbal communication. Having a man pay on a date, especially at the beginning of a relationship, is an easy way to play out this role and helps us get together in the first place.

Secondly, a lot of the people on here are getting pretty worked up about the situation. People are swearing and letting out some pretty charged opinions. The thing is, it's hard to find the right person to be with. If you're on a date and the woman expects the man to pay but the man resents it, then there is probably a pretty good chance that you're on a date with the wrong person. Dating the right person isn't difficult, it's wonderful and that's why we bother going through all the crap dates to get to the right person. When you're dating the right person money is no longer an issue because they want to give to you to make you happy and you want to give to them to make them happy. Dating the right person becomes one big love fest of happy giving and taking and who's paying for this date or that date doesn't really matter. Find the right person and I really believe that these problems will fall away.

Amidst all the opinions and comments in abundance, it's easy to sway from one scenario to another. One obvious thing remains as old as time itself, the difference between men and women. This will also varies between cultures and believes. However, one universal rule holds the test of time : Women bear child, men make them.

Simply because of this biological nature women are hard-wired that they are the "price" and men are expected to "pay" for that. Prostitutes or not, feme fatale or the girl next door...it's always one sided. Men are expected to pay because as a gesture that he is a capable bread-whiner for her, that when she gets pregnant and couldn't walk straight he is there to "provide". Cloud 9 aside, men should smell the liberty and wake up to stop taking this SHIT from women. There is another explanation for it, women's behaviour like this is also men to be blamed. These men use "egos" that they are men who "takes care of women" and pamper them, become society's habit, and women use this as expectation across the board. I mean think about it, a man could date few times a month, spend an average of $50 per date, what's the hit rate? Potentially close to none. So why waste money and time on some women who does not guarantee a spot-on chemistry?

So don't spend a dime on her until she spends a thought (or heart) on you. But even then, don't let her get away with it by paying (expensively) for her. One coffee, a beer is fine and she should tank you for that. She thinks with HER VIRGINA! If you go on dates, whether at expensive bistros or not, she should split the bill or could offer to pay, or she indicates to treat you next date. The risk here is, what are the chances of a next date that she has promised to treat you? Give you another 100 dates like this and you will go bankrupt with no returns. Women will always date and go, looking for the bigger-better-deal. If she doesn’t initiate, ask her for her portion. After all, you may not see her again whether you pay or not! Don’t get worried that you turn her off. If she gets turn off if you stand your ground, she is probably not worth your mind. How many times should you impress her and get her to like you (finally!)? If she likes you, the first date is all it takes.True enough, men like a woman the moment he sees a 34D and a curve like Cher. It’s time to switch thinking perhaps, men should start liking women for her “substance” women should start liking men for his “looks”. Date smart guys, and don’t use your ego. Don’t be nice guy, be a wise guy.

This particular article is bullshit. Women work, earn money so they should PULL THEIR OWN WEIGHT. Men also spend money to look good (Soap,Deoderant, Shoes, Shaving, Vehicles..etc) so that shit doesn't wash.

If its a possible "one-off" date I (being a girl) will always insist on paying 50-50. Once in a relationship, we tend to rotate who pays so if my bf gets one week i will the next etc.